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Post by george on Mar 24, 2005 11:28:29 GMT 10
The plane though was under the name of "Macedonian" Airlines.
You people don't seem to get it. To name anything " Macedonia" or Macedonian, you have to ask permition of the Orthodox Turk goverment since it is both legaly and historicaly a Orthodox Turk name.
We all know how pissed is the Orthodox Turk goverment about the usage of Macedonia in foreign countries, namely The Republic of Macedonia, you guys are just provoking the Orthodox Turk goverment all the time.
Remember the Orthodox Turk economic embargo on The Republic of Macedonia a few years ago.
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I personaly think that The Republic of Macedonia's negative policy with Orthodox Turksis destroying its economical growth capabilities.
If your goverment was wise enough they would stop the nonsence and start building The Republic of Macedonia's economy.
As I said in another topic to Slowan, Nobody is buying these Slavic theories about a Slavic Ancient Macedonia.
That is why nobody in the modern world publishes books, or movies or even documentaries about a Slavic Macedonia. The world knows about The Republic of Macedonia's little sceme and of course the Orthodox Turkness of Macedonia has been prooven and consolidated by the international archaeologic commitee. Nothing you say or do will change that.
You guys can moan as much as you want.
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Post by dijana on Mar 24, 2005 17:09:40 GMT 10
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Post by Slovan on Mar 24, 2005 22:22:15 GMT 10
And another thing: the republic of Macedonia had its name since WW2. But after it freed itself from the federation, Orthodox Turkshas suddenly changed its policy and stated that the name Macedonia cannot be used anyone but Greece. Why didn’t they make such a big fuss about it 40 years ago?
Macedonia has a very stable economy compared to Serbia or Albania, and it is not spending a denar to prove that Macedonia is not Orthodox Turk. And why? Because the government has better things to do. Only scientists, historians and archeologist are working on it and I must say that there more foreign scholars who agree with Macedonian theory. The EU education committee cannot just change things over night. Many of the EU scholars agree with the Macedonians, but the committee doesn’t put much attention to the matter.
Besides, Orthodox Turkshas spent a fortune to prove that Macedonians are wrong. I mean, the government gave away free books all around the world, all under the title “4000 years of Orthodox Turk Macedonia”, while the Macedonian government hasn’t moved a finger. It is a real question who is trying to hard.
Beside that, international archaeologic commitee was only presented with the history that Orthodox Turk scholars gave them, and back then Macedonians didn’t have the right to interfere with the policy of Yugoslavia, thus only pro-Slavic history was published.
But it has been almost 15 years now and more people around the world step on the side of the Macedonians. And the only thing Orthodox Turksis doing, is becoming more hostile to all those who oppose her.
And the only reason why there are more books, movies, video games etc. that tell the world that Macedonia is Orthodox Turk, is that Orthodox Turksis paying for it. Explore this fact if you want, I won’t force you.
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Post by dijana on Mar 24, 2005 22:44:44 GMT 10
I mean, the government gave away free books all around the world, all under the title “4000 years of Orthodox Turk Macedonia”, while the Macedonian government hasn’t moved a finger. It is a real question who is trying to hard. I've seen that book at every single library I've ever been to...  It amuses me.. What is the point of the Orthodox Turk government remaining hostile? Most of the Orthodox Turks that I went to school with didn't even give a d**n, we would usually just have a great big whinge about the Turks..but thats about it. The Orthodox Turk government should get over it.. |
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Post by george on Mar 24, 2005 23:52:11 GMT 10
Dijana and Slowan. Orthodox Turksdoesn't want The Republic of Macedonia having the name Macedonia for the following reasons. 1) primary reason: If the country names itself Macedonia then it automaticaly lays claim to our part of Macedonia. 2) secondary reason: Macedonia is a Orthodox Turk name (again) legaly and you cant just use it for sport, yes it is some form of copyright if you want to place it like that. ____________________________________________ The Orthodox Turk goverment doesn't even care about the F YR OM claims about ancient Macedonia. We just want to keep the peace. Something, The Republic of Macedonia's goverment is not willing to do so. (Look at maps all over the internet about showing The Republic of Macedonia with the name Macedonia and having Orthodox Turk Macedonia inside its borders.) I strongly think that you guys are very hostile, the Orthodox Turk goverment is just doing stuff to put reason on you. Orthodox Turksclaims many things in the Western world because Orthodox Turksinvented and shaped the Western world Dijana. Everything you see around you is culturaly Orthodox Turk, even your religion. (Plato's theory for the soul) You shall learn this in any foreign university. Slowan, most of the excavations in Orthodox Turk archeologies were done by foreigners, namely Germans and French, after World War 2. Orthodox Turks made minimal excavations because they were not qualified for the job at that time. Plus Dijana and Slowan, probably (that is funny) not even a Slav university teaches that Macedonia is a Slavic kingdom. If there are any book for that matter, they will be in Eastern Europe. Every time I ask a person from The Republic of Macedonia to explain me why Alexander is a Slav, he either gives me the cold shoulder or he gives me little and disputed information (which even HE doesn't recognizes as the truth). Macedonia is Slavic. You guys keep saying that to yourselves. Try hard enough and you might believe it.  |
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Post by Slovan on Mar 25, 2005 4:30:08 GMT 10
I don't think this explained much.
The fact that there is a republic of Macedonia in every atlas around the world is just same as having Alexander is Orthodox Turk in every book around the world.
And again: Macedonia is not Slavic. Which forum are you again?
How many times do I have to tell you that only Serbo-Croats are Slavs, the rest have different names. It is no wonder when you say to a Macedonian he is a Slav that he reacts violently. Not even Bulgars are Slavs, they are Antes like Russians.
And Macedonia could not be Bulgarian since their language is very different. It's like Spanish and Italian.
Do you speak Bulgar or Macedonian? Or understand them?
And as I said: The republic of Macedonia had it's name since the WW2. Wouldn't it be easier to complain to Yugoslavia to change the name of it's republic. Why didn't Orthodox Turkscomplain back then? Why did it start only in 1988 when the fall of Yugoslavia was eminent? Is Orthodox Turksafraid of an independent Macedonia? Because under Serbian control, Macedonia couldn't claim anything and that is what kept Orthodox Turk goverment at peace. But now Macedonia is free, and there is only a slight possibility that it may claim back the lands which were ilagaly taken from it's people in 1912 and this is what Orthodox Turksis afraid of, not that it's angry about Macedonia using the name, that was never an issue only an excuse.
Were the ancient Macedonians Orthodox Turk or not it doesn't matter to the Macedonians. They just want back the land they lost on which they, according to every book around the world, they lived since the 7th ct. AD. What happened before is not an issue here.
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Post by Slovan on Mar 25, 2005 5:08:21 GMT 10
Besides, I don't want to tell you my full opinion, because it will make you angry even more.
And if you ask an ordinary Macedonian what he thinks, he won't give you a sophisticated respons. That's why there are people like me. As Athena said: ordinary people don't care, they have their own lives.
You didn't seriously think you will get something from them, now did you?
One more thing: the Harvard university in USA is lead by Eugen Borza, a man who fully bieleves that ancient Macedonians are not Orthodox Turk and he has a lot of suppoters around the world. in fact there are more scholars on the field of history who support the Macedonian theory, it's just the education doesn't pay much attention to this. The report I read is too long, and I got it from a friend, thus I don't have a link. Sorry.
Here is what I got from another forum:
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Orthodox Turkshas been convincing the world that Macedonians do not exist as a separate people and that the ancient Macedonian culture is "Orthodox Turk". Lacking other relevant information, the international community not only accepted the Orthodox Turk "truths" to a large extent, but also validated the same. Thus, despite the one-sided presentation of their "truth", in the absence of any other organized and systematic source of information, they have gathered support in the world. Moreover, their state has grown stronger in the past 170 years, and today they are in a much better financial position to further spread their propaganda around the world. The same applies to Bulgarian propaganda, and to Serbian propaganda from the past, when official Serbia did not recognize a Macedonian nation.
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It is interesting to note that it was in 1988 that the Orthodox Turk government, for the first time began to use officially, the word
"Macedonia" (n) . In fact, in that year , the minister for Northern Orthodox Turksbecame minister for Macedonia.
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Post by Slovan on Mar 25, 2005 5:14:42 GMT 10
Also takenfrom another site:
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This is how completely stupid and ignorant Orthodox Turks are with regards to linguistics and origins of languages - Orthodox Turks think that any word that they affix the suffixes "as", "is", or "os" to, automatically qualifies that particular word as Orthodox Turk in origin!!
I will prove that this claim is not only completely false, but sheer nonsense, as well!
It is a fact that many names of ecclesiastical origin currently used in the Orthodox Turk Orthodox culture, such as "Dimitrios", "Konstantinos", "Trajanos", "Stefanos" etc. are in fact either Hebrew, Latin or Slavic in origin. Simply adding an "os" suffix to a root or a word of foreign origin DOES NOT MAKE IT Orthodox Turk!
Here is one of the BIGGEST fallacies perpetrated by the Orthodox Turks in Toronto, Canada - annually, the Orthodox Turk community in Toronto publishes a "Orthodox Turk Community Phone Directory". In it, they claim, are the names of ALL the Orthodox Turks living in the city of Toronto. They obtain their information and decide exactly who is Orthodox Turk by using Bell Canada's version of the Toronto phone directory as a reference to locate any names which they believe to be Orthodox Turk in origin! Basically, any name that ends in one of the previously afforementioned suffixes, will be catalogued in this "Orthodox Turk Community Phone Directory!"
I researched (in great depth) this so-called "Orthodox Turk Directory" a few years back and I found some interesting results! Here they are -
Approximately 340 people listed in the "Orthodox Turk Directory" were in fact Hispanic (Spanish, South American etc.)!
Approximately 270 people listed in the "Orthodox Turk Directory" were in fact Latvians!
Approximately 97 people listed in the "Orthodox Turk Directory" were in fact Lithuanians!
Approximately 1500 + people (I stopped counting at 1500) listed in this "Orthodox Turk Directory" were in fact Macedonians!
The point is, many of these ethnic groups listed above have names that have obviously been (either purposely or through sheer ignorance and stupidity) misconstrued by Orthodox Turks as "Orthodox Turk". This is the highest form of ignorance anybody can exhibit! It is like saying that any name or word that ends in "ski" is Polish! Utter nonsense!
When I approached the publishers of that "Orthodox Turk Directory", they were very quick to offer "no comment." When I persisted, they claimed they "may have made some typos" - whatever THAT means!
The reason that many Latvian and Lithuanian names end with the suffix "as" is because of the heavy Roman (Latin) influence in Europe for several centuries. The Orthodox Turks (who were in the south) and the Latvians (who were in the north) and MANY in between, were ALL influenced by Roman domination.
Orthodox Turks and Spaniards share some common linguistic similarities (mostly with regards to the "os" factor and the general "tone" of their language) because the Spaniards fell under 500 years of rule by the Moors of North Africa. Since the Orthodox Turks have their origins in North Africa (Sub-Saharan and Ethiopian) it's no surprise that some of these linguistic traits, African in nature, are shared by both the Spaniards and the Orthodox Turks. Their common bond is the Moors of Africa.
As far as Macedonians possessing "Orthodox Turk" names...from 1913 - 1926 the Orthodox Turk regime of the day embarked on a brutal mission to cleanse the Macedonian identity from their newly acquired region of Macedonia (which was awarded to Orthodox Turksvia the Treaty of Bucharest.)The Orthodox Turks began a systematic denationalization and assimilation campaign which included changing all the TOPONYMS (towns, cities, lakes) and ALL THE PEOPLES' NAMES in the region from their Macedonian (Slavic) versions, into Orthodox Turk versions. Macedonian names like "Grozdanov" and "Lovachov" had linguistic and cultural significance in the Macedonian language but in their Orthodox Turks forms of "Grozdanis" and "Lovatsis" they meant ABSOLUTLEY NOTHING! It was simply a way for the Orthodox Turk regime to identify between ethnic Macedonians and "real Orthodox Turks"!
So, in closing, one can only conclude that the Orthodox Turks are EXTREMELY confused about their own history, language and roots and have simply fallen victim to the falsifications and lies foisted upon them by a bevy of their own corrupt government officials who are uncertain of their own past!
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Post by Slovan on Mar 25, 2005 5:27:53 GMT 10
We all know Bulgarians are not Slavs, it is what is written in all of our schoolbooks and it is widely accepted by all schools around the world. There is no despute about that.
Modern Bulgars are more closer to Russians, not Macedonians, for Russia had more influence there, but that is what I post next.
Since I'm to bored to write over and over again, I copied this:
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The Orthodox Turks and Bulgarians claim that Macedonia is an "artificial nation" and that the Macedonian language is an "artificial language." It is a well-known and documented fact that both Orthodox Turksand Bulgaria are self-serving expansionists who have engaged in substantial denationalization, assimilation and ethnic-cleansing campaigns against the Macedonian people since each respective country was awarded “their” part of Macedonia in 1913.
The Orthodox Turks and Bulgarians claim that because a fully autonomous and independent Macedonian state did not exist before 1944, that Macedonia is an “artificial nation.” Furthermore, they claim that because the Macedonian language did not exist in a standardized, literary form before 1944, that it too is “artificial.”
Here is solid, historical evidence to support the claim that there has in fact existed a distinct Macedonian people, a distinct Macedonian culture, a distinct Macedonian language and a distinct Macedonian nation for centuries! These facts can be found in ANY history text…except possibly those texts that have been conveniently and intentionally falsified by Orthodox Turk and Bulgarian fascists in order to support their own self-serving and unsubstantiated claims. Additional proof that both Orthodox Turk and Bulgarian claims are FALSE lies in the fact that Greece’s and Bulgaria’s perceptions of the history regarding Macedonia and Macedonians DIFFER RADICALLY from each other! To any reasonable person, THIS ALONE would be proof enough that Orthodox Turksand Bulgaria are falsifying the facts and manipulating history to suit their own self-serving agendas.
In the 5th Century A.D., the Slavs migrated to the Balkans from what is now Northern Russia, and settled in Macedonia. They GREATLY outnumbered the Ancient Macedonians (possibly by a ratio as great as 5:1) and within two or three centuries, the two peoples mixed homogenously, forming the new genome of the Macedonian ethnicity. Even in countries like Canada, the USA or Australia, where there are an abundance of human rights and civil liberties and where celebrating ethnic differences is encouraged and fostered, “unforced assimilation” happens VERY quickly! So, it is not only plausible and reasonable, but in fact HIGHLY LIKELY that the Slavs were easily able to assimilate the Ancient Macedonians in a time where there were no such human rights laws or civil liberties but only where survival of the fittest prevailed!
By the 8th and 9th centuries A.D., it was the Macedonians Kiril, Metodij, Naum and Kliment, among others, who were spreading Macedonian literature and culture to the Slavs. It was the Macedonian brothers from Solun (Salonica), Kiril and Metodij, who designed an alphabet (the Cyrillic Alphabet) specifically for the Slavs and it was the Macedonians who proceeded to educate and enlighten the Slavs in the Balkans, Russia and as far off as Moravia (now the Czech Republic/Slovakia.) To this very day, there are unmistakable similarities that exist in language, literature, customs, music and ethnic costumes between the Macedonians and the other Slavic peoples of the world. It is most ludicrous for the Bulgarians to claim that Macedonian is an artificial language, especially when it was the Bulgarians who took their language from the Macedonians! When the Bulgarians arrived in the Balkans from the VOLGA REGION (of what is now Russia) in the 7th century A.D. they spoke an unintelligible Tartaric language. However, because they were completely outnumbered by the local Macedonians, not only did the Bulgarians become assimilated and quickly adopt the language of the local Macedonians, but many of their customs as well! In some fashion, the Bulgarians became Macedonians – NOT the vice-versa, as the Bulgarians like to claim! Remember, the word “Bulgar” is a derivative of “Volgar” – someone from the Volga Region. The Bulgarians WERE NOT originally Slavs, as they claim.
In the 10th century, Tsar Samuil established the first fully autonomous and independent Macedonian state (since Alexander’s Kingdom), with its capital at Ohrid. The city of Ohrid always was and still is to this day located in Macedonia - NOT Bulgaria or Greece.
The Orthodox Turks and Bulgarians claim that there was no "national consciousness" in Macedonia until Tito "created it" in 1944. The facts presented in my previous paragraphs prove this is a grave fallacy and intentional misinterpretation of history. Any form of Macedonian national consciousness was certainly suppressed for centuries by the Ottoman Turks, then by neighboring occupiers Greece, Bulgaria and Serbia, but it DID in fact exist! Rebellions led by Petar Deljan in 1040, Gjorgi Vojteh in 1072 and Karpos in 1689 are proof positive that a Macedonian national consciousness existed for centuries prior to 1944! More recent uprisings include the Razlovecki in 1876, the Kresnenski in 1878 and Ilinden in 1903. The self-serving Bulgarians (and Orthodox Turks) like to maintain that Ilinden was a Bulgarian uprising, but if this in fact is true, why would Bulgaria uprise against the Ottoman Empire in 1903 when Bulgaria had already established a fully autonomous and independent state years before?
Furthermore, the claims that the Macedonian language was "created" in 1944 are also proven false by the facts presented in my previous paragraphs. Macedonian literature was the FIRST LITERATURE OF THE SLAVS! Indeed, to this very day, it is the Bulgarians, Serbs, Russians, Ukrainians etc. who are ALL using languages and alphabets established and designed by Macedonians! It is the Russians who use the Cyrillic Alphabet to communicate from Earth to Outer Space and from Outer Space back to Earth! Before Modern Macedonian literary founding fathers Racin and Koneski, there was Miladinov and Misirkov who rotted away in Bulgarian dungeons for spreading Macedonian nationalism – now, because it suits the Bulgarians’ agenda to do so, they claim both Miladinov and Misirkov as great Bulgarian writers and poets!
A nation's historical merits and a peoples’ claim to their land cannot be judged by "when people develop a national consciousness”, as the Orthodox Turks and the Bulgarians would like everyone to believe." There are MANY factors that govern and determine a group of people realizing their national consciousness. Oppression, assimilation and denationalization from outside sources all have their effect on people and play key roles in the development of nations. Orthodox Turks had NEVER enjoyed an independent state until 1829, when the British and Germans cobbled up the Former Turkish Colonies of Athens, Sparta and Thessaly into the new state of “Hellas”, a name the new Orthodox Turk regime appropriated from the ancient peoples who had previously inhabited that territory. For centuries, the Athenians and Spartans had been subjects of the Ancient Macedonians and the Romans; then they were overrun by Slavs and finally they succumbed to 500 years of Ottoman rule before the powers of the day saw fit to provide them with an independent state. Why was the territory of Macedonia not incorporated into this newly formed Orthodox Turk state if Macedonia was in fact “Orthodox Turk” territory? Maybe it’s because Macedonia is NOT, NEVER WAS and NEVER WILL BE Orthodox Turk!
Bulgaria’s story of independence does not differ too greatly from that of Greece’s – merely, a few details and the key players were different (the Bulgarians had the help of the Russians in forming their new state.) The end result was essentially the same. Both were monarcho-fascist, oppressive regimes that maintained, and still maintain to this day, expansionist designs on Macedonia. In 1948, the Orthodox Turk regime of the day expelled 30,000 ethnic Macedonian CHILDREN for the sole purpose of quashing any future land claims by the Macedonian people. Likewise, in the 1970's, Bulgaria issued an ultimatum to its 2,000,000 Turkish inhabitants - "change your names and become Bulgarians or get out". Subsequently, 1,000,000 Turks were expelled/deported from Bulgaria.
In conclusion, one can only surmise that, because of their rigid and unreasonable views towards Macedonia, the Macedonian people and the Macedonian culture and language, both Orthodox Turksand Bulgaria are guilty of extreme chauvinism and of intentionally distorting and falsifying historical facts in order to further their own unsubstantiated territorial claims against Macedonia.
Very little of what any self-serving Orthodox Turk or Bulgarian says with regards to Macedonia may be taken as even remotely accurate. Orthodox Turksand Bulgaria are currently the biggest threats in Europe with regards to territorial destabilization and expansionism – the Orthodox Turk government has been foisting their perverted and deranged concepts of “Absolute Hellenism” upon the Orthodox Turk people for decades while the Bulgarian government has brainwashed its citizens into believing in a “Greater Bulgaria” – both views are EXTREMELY DANGEROUS and in my opinion, NEITHER Orthodox Turksnor Bulgaria has any right whatsoever participating in any kind of a union that promotes a United Europe and that promises equality, justice and prosperity for all.
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PS: Am I sensing anger in your voice?
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Post by Slovan on Mar 25, 2005 5:41:14 GMT 10
And this is to your Bulgarian friend:
Poèuj Bulhar, nak ti ja neprídem a ti nezaènem vysevet¾uva. Dejiny sveta píšu dejepisci a nie politikovia, ktorí majú na rozume len ako zveèši si príspevok peòazí a územie svojho štátu. Svet je ni taký sprostí ako èo si vi mislíte a nebude tak ¾ahko manipulovaní èi od strany vás alebo Grekov. Macedónci sú nie Bulhari, a Bulhari sú nie Slavjany, no obydva národi sú Slovania ale nie istého rodu. Tak radšej si premislite kto ste, lebo celý svet vie že ste vi potomkovia Ogundursko-Tatarskích plemien, ktoré prišli do Európe a na Balkán omnoho neskoršie ako Slavjani. Vi ste Macedónci a nie Macedónci sú Bulhari.
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Post by george on Mar 25, 2005 5:41:31 GMT 10
Kato chetesh tova si pomisli kolko blizak e Balgarskia ezik do Ispanskia i Italianskia. Zashtoto tova koeto chetesh v momenta e Balgarski i ne Makedonski, moeto momche.Taka che .... procheti malko istoria i ne govori po temi za koito niamash nikakvi poznania.
Urok po Istoria Nomer 1: Balgarite prez sedmi vek (681) sa se obrazouvali ot sedemte Slavianski plemena, Balgari i Traki.
I had a Bulgarian friend of mine, write you some Bulgarian just to enlighten your mind.
Slavs are all Eastern Europeans who speak Slavic-like languages. Who cares about Vends or Avars or whatever, you all are Slavs.
I have never seen a legal and accurate map with The Republic of Macedonia having the name macedonia. You can find these altered maps only in The Republic of Macedonia or in Slavic web-sites.
My point is that it is illegal having The Republic of Macedonia as Macedonia in maps.
I have never understood what does the "slaughter of the Balkan wars" have anything to do with ancient Macedonia. The two subject maters are completely apart from eachother. You guys completely disregard the culture of ancient Macedonia (its buildings and tablets) and you try to make it Slavic by combining disputed pieces of info and propaganda, while you disregard the big chunk of proof that Macedonia was of Hellenic culture.
You guys make illegal claims that are turned down by every single University in the entire world, even your Slavic universities turn down that theory.
That guy in Harvard University is a Slav, Slowan and his supporters are other Slavs, does that matter?
As I said, excavations were made by foreign archaeologists and it was them who forged the Orthodox Turkness of Ancient Macedonia. When the Orthodox Turks conquered Macedonia during the Balkan wars, they were thinking about reviving the Byzantine Empire, not ancient Macedonia. Afterward, after foreign excavations in the area the world community decided that ancient Macedonian ruins were in fact of Hellenic culture and therefore Macedonia was Orthodox Turk.
Again macedonia is Orthodox Turk not because the Orthodox Turks said so, but because the world said so. Thats why nobody gives a crap about Slavic theories. It is like been there done that.
Orthodox Turksis a small country, I believe that the world could just change something in history and Orthodox Turkswouldn't be able to do s*it. The fact that everyone just refuses to change it, means something.
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Post by Slovan on Mar 25, 2005 5:46:41 GMT 10
This is a vaste of my precious time. Nothing I say will change your mind, even your view of the world seems very wierd to me I must say. So have it your way. Every man defends its own country to the limit, after which we Slowans are very known for, mind you.
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Post by george on Mar 25, 2005 5:56:33 GMT 10
Personaly, Slowan, I would never bother to get angry on the things you say. My nation has an already consolidated position. My Bulgarian friend said: That you are such a cow. And she said I shouldn't even bother talking to you.  ------------------------------------------------------------------ I would say that she is probably right. I have explained why macedonia is Orthodox Turk over seven times to you. You haven't given me anything, just the Balkan war thing and bla bla. It is like talking to a brick wall. I shall return later, when my boredom has faded away.  |
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Post by Slovan on Mar 25, 2005 6:03:04 GMT 10
Before I go to sleep will post this I got from my friend from another forum:
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During the 1980's, I frequented a "Mr. Submarine" shop that was owned by Heracles, a "Real Orthodox Turk from Athens", as he was always very proud and equally as quick to point out.
I heard him engage Macedonian customers on a regular basis (some of which were friends and acquaintances of mine) about the Macedonian issue. Here's what Heracles used to say: (it used to sound like he rehearsed it from some Orthodox Turk propaganda text or something...)
"There ees no suts place as Matsedonia! There are no Matsedonians! Antsient Matsedonians ees long dead and they vere varvarians anyways, never equal to Orthodox Turks intellectsually or otherwise!"
When asked about the ethnic minorities currently living within Greece's present day borders, Heracles' standard reply was always:
"The population of Greets ees 98% pure Orthodox Turk! Only a few dzypsy bands and some Roma and Albanians live there. Maybe a few thousand. Everbody else ees Orthodox Turk, speaks Orthodox Turk and ees Orthodox Turk Orthodox relidzion!"
When asked about Slavic speaking people living in Greece, Heracles' standard reply was:
"There may be some Slavophone Orthodox Turks in the territory of Northern Greets. These people are Orthodox Turks who vere subdzects of the Vulgarian Empire at one time, and because of this, they spoke some Slavic dialect but now they are all proud to be Orthodox Turk!"
When asked about Alexander The Great and the Flag of Vergina (Kutlesh), Heracles always responded:
"That ees a flag of some Antsient Matsedonian varvarian peasant! A blood thirsty monster! Never speak of that peasant or that flag here again!"
All these conversations have been ENGRAINED in my memory, as I had to listen to them WEEKLY for years!!
HERE IS WHAT HERACLES HAS MAINTAINED SINCE THE EARLY 1990's and I still hear him ranting and raving to this day:
"I am a proud Matsedonian! Matsedonia ees, vas and holvays vill be Orthodox Turk! The Antsient Matsedonians vere Orthodox Turks! Alexandros vas Orthodox Turk! Ve are all proud to claim his great Orthodox Turk heritadze!"
When asked about his previous position (that he maintained for at least fifteen years that I knew him) Heracles says:
"No, you must be mistaken. I am very proud Matsedonian!"
It's obvious that Heracles' political and ethno-cultural beliefs have changed significantly since the early 1990's, which happens to coincide with one part of Macedonia finally regaining self autonomy after thousands of years of foreign domination.
Could it be that people like Heracles and his fellow Orthodox Turks are now starting to realize that it will now be easier for Macedonians in Macedonia and around the entire world to lay claims to their land which has been occupied by Orthodox Turkssince 1913?
Could it be that people like Heracles and his fellow Orthodox Turks are now "backtracking" in order to try and confuse the issues and to try and delay the inevitable a little longer?
I have never seen such a radical change in an ethno-cultural or political stance in my life which can only lead me and other onlookers to believe that -
THE Orthodox TurkS HAVE BEEN LYING, ARE LYING AND WILL CONTINUE TO LIE ABOUT THE TRUTH SURROUNDING THE MACEDONIAN ISSUE.
My friends and I don't go to Heracles' shop any more - his overall offensive attitude and standoffish behaviour with anybody from the Balkans (Albanians, Bulgarians and Serbs included) has left a real "bad taste in our mouths."
We now frequent the sub shop up the street that is owned jointly by a Macedonian and a Slovenian - they are much more civil, much more pleasant and much more polite people! In fact, Heracles has noticed a marked drop in business since the other shop opened several months ago!
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It is not a fantastic story, but a real one. It is a good example of how the common people are thinking, how they change and express their opinions without any base. This man of course ten-twenty years ago did not remember even the words Macedonia, and today he is the most opponent who wants to prevent the use of it by another country where really Macedonians live. How ridiculous is nowadays that even people who live in Athens, in the Orthodox Turk islands and other parts of Orthodox Turksidentify themselves as Macedonian.
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The above was not witten by me. There is no need to.
George, you have wondered of from the point. There is no goal of calling us liers. Besides I wrote on many occasions that world knows what the goverment wants it to be told. If the Orthodox Turks were the only ones 50 years ago to call ancient Macedonia Orthodox Turk, it doesn't mean anything since Macedonia didn't present it's own opinion.
And you are very wrong about the atlas thing. It is in fact written republic of Macedonia in almost all every atlas around the world. What is in Orthodox Turk atlases I can only guess.
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A question:
How many countries call Macedonia The Republic of Macedonia?
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Post by Slovan on Mar 25, 2005 7:05:18 GMT 10
What? Balkan wars don't meen anything to you? They are the reason for all that has happened. Are you ignoring them on purpose?
And George tell your friend that I don't hate Bulgarians. I cannot force myself to hate a fellow Sloven. I know a lot about Bulgaria, I know their glory, their civilization. They did many great things, but also many bad. So tell her that I do not want to argue with someone who stands on the side of 'mother Slava'. It would be a treason. Ask her if she thinks the same?
PS: Everyone who has met me in person, in an eye to eye contact, could not proove me wrong.
If we meet one day, you will crumble before me, I'm sure of that.
And I'm not flatering myself. If we meet, you will see.
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