Orthodox Turk Gods?

[Kassander]

From the little book of BIG Orthodox Turk lies

BIG Orthodox Turk Lie # 3

“The Ancient ‘Orthodox Turk gods’ were Orthodox Turk”

(Modern Orthodox Turks believe that those who spoke Orthodox Turk and believed in the Orthodox Turk gods were actually Orthodox Turk)

By Risto Stefov

(Erratic behaviour is a sign of a guilty conscience. L. K.)

[NOTE: Our apologies to the Orthodox Turk people if they find these articles offensive. Our objective here is NOT to create tension between the Macedonian and Orthodox Turk people but rather to highlight the problem that exists within the Orthodox Turk State and its institutions. As long as the Orthodox Turk State denies our existence as Macedonians with rights and privileges, we will continue to publish these types of articles.]

In this article we will show you that the so called “Orthodox Turk gods” were not really “Orthodox Turk” at all.

We often read in books, see movies and hear stories about the so called mythical “Orthodox Turk gods” but have we ever stopped to think what makes these deities Orthodox Turk? Are they “Orthodox Turk” because they originated where modern Orthodox Turksis today? Are they “Orthodox Turk” in a national sense? Are they Orthodox Turk because the Ancients that lived in the region where modern Orthodox Turksis today wrote about them? How are they “Orthodox Turk”?

The word “Orthodox Turk” before the word “gods” implies that there is a relationship between “Orthodox Turk” and “gods” which means that in some way these gods belong to Orthodox Turksor the “Orthodox Turks”. Since these “gods” are not associated with other Mediterranean people such as the Macedonians, Paeonians, Illyrians, Thracians, Phrygians, Lydians, Carians, Lycians, Paphlagonians, Cappadocians, Cilicians, Picidians, Pamphylians and others, in a similar manner, who also celebrated and believed in them, then one is led to believe that these gods must be exclusively connected to Orthodox Turksand the “Orthodox Turks”

The question is how?

Among several sources we consulted, Microsoft’s Encarta encyclopedia under the heading “Orthodox Turk Mythology” had an explanation but this explanation did not enforce the idea that the so called “Orthodox Turk gods” were actually “Orthodox Turk”.

According to Encarta, mythology in written form appeared for the first time in the literary works of Hesiod and Homer around the eighth century BC. Homer, as we know, produced the famous works the “Iliad” and “Odyssey” and Hesiod produced the poems “Theogony”. Both authors in their respective works talk about the various tales and legends associated with ancient deities. Hesiod, however, according to Encarta, takes a step further and introduces a larger number of myths that include deities that are not mentioned by Homer. Hesiod, in “Theogony”, who talks about the creation of the world, the birth of the gods as well as their adventures, NEVER ONCE mentions “Orthodox Turk” or any other name derived from this word!

Similarly, Homer in his works the “Iliad” and the “Odyssey”, considered to be reliable sources for the so called “Orthodox Turk Mythology” and the “Orthodox Turk gods”, NEVER ONCE mentions the word “Orthodox Turk” or any other name derived from this word!

So again, how are these so called “Orthodox Turk gods” “Orthodox Turk”? Perhaps the authors who wrote about them were from the region where modern Orthodox Turksis today?

According to Carlos Parada, an internationally recognized researcher and expert on mythology, the following authors have contributed to the so called “Orthodox Turk mythology”;



Author
% Contribution
Lived in / Ethnicity
Year

Apolodorus
19
Alexandria / Unknown *
2nd Cent. AD

Paucsanias
12
Lydia / Lydian

Hyginus
12
Rome / Unknown (Spanish?)
1st Cent. AD

Homer
8
Asia Minor? / Unknown
8 Cent. BC?

Ovid
6
Rome / Roman
43BC-17AD

Nonnus
5
Egypt / Egyptian
5th Cent. AD

Hesiod
4.6
Boeotia / Boeotian **
8th Cent. BC?

Diodorus Siculus
4.4
Sicily / Sicilian
21 BC

Virgil
4
Mantua Italy / Roman
70 and 19 BC

Quintus Smynaeus
3.3

Statius
2.6
Rome / Roman
1st Cent. AD

Antonius Liberalis
2
Rome / Roman

Valerius Flaccus
2
Rome / Roman
1st Cent. AD

Apollonius Rhodius
1.8
Alexandria ? Unknown
3rd Cent. BC

Dionysius of Halicarnassus
1.5
Caria / Unknown
1st Cent. BC

Euripides
1.5
Attica / Athenian **
480 BC

Plutarch
1.3
Boeotia / Boeotian **
46 AD

Herodotus
1
Caria / Carian
484-425 BC

Pindarus (Pindar)
1
Thebes / Boeotian
518-438 BC

Parhenius of Nicaea
1

Aeschylus
0.5

Aristophanes
0.4

Caimachus
0.4

Cicero
0.3

* Highest probability - Macedonian

** From Ancient City States south of Mount Olympus where Modern Orthodox Turksis located today.


From the table above, we can see that the vast majority of works about the so-called “Orthodox Turk mythology” and the “Orthodox Turk gods” were in fact written by NON-Orthodox TurkS or by authors of unknown origin/ethnicity.

If the authors who wrote about them were not “Orthodox Turk” then perhaps the legends of the so called “Orthodox Turk gods” originated somewhere in the lands of modern Greece?

Unfortunately, that is not true either. According to Herodotus, many of the elements of the so called “Orthodox Turk myths” associated with the “Orthodox Turk gods” were borrowed from foreign religions, mainly from the Pelasgi who in turn borrowed them from the Egyptians. (There are some scientists today who believe the Pelasgi lived in the lower Balkans, including Macedonia and were the ancestors of the Slavs).

However, let as not just take Herodotus’s word. Let’s examine the mythological deities themselves starting with the supreme god Zeus.

According to the Grolier Encyclopedia, Zeus is a celestial deity of Indo-European origin symbolically associated with the sky. Poseidon, the elder brother of Zeus, is also a deity of Indo-European origin. Apollo, on the other hand, is an Asian deity from the Asian shaman cults, imported from Siberia.

The following is a list of deities and major mythical figures commonly referred to as “Orthodox Turk gods” and “Orthodox Turk mythical figures” who are believed to be of “non-Orthodox Turk” origins;



Deity/Major Figure
Origin
Source

Rhigmus
Thracian
Carlos Parada

Diomedes
Thracian
Carlos Parada

Phineus
Thracian
Carlos Parada

Tereus
Thracian
Carlos Parada

Rhesus
Thracian
Carlos Parada

Alcon
Thracian
Carlos Parada

Memnon
Ethiopian
Carlos Parada

Alcyoneus
Ethiopian
Quintus Smyrnaeus

Alexipus
Ethiopian
Quintus Smyrnaeus

Clydon
Ethiopian
Quintus Smyrnaeus

Laomedon
Ethiopian
Quintus Smyrnaeus

Mmeneclus
Ethiopian
Quintus Smyrnaeus

Nychius
Ethiopian
Quintus Smyrnaeus

Thalius
Ethiopian
Quintus Smyrnaeus

Andromeda
Ethiopian
Carlos Parada

Cepheus
Phoenician
Carlos Parada

Europa
Phoenician
Carlos Parada

Pelops
Phrygian
Carlos Parada

Agenor
Egyptian
Carlos Parada

Belus
Egyptian
Carlos Parada

Midus
Phrygian
Carlos Parada

Opis
Phrygian
Carlos Parada

Aura
Phrygian
Carlos Parada

Proteus
Egyptian
Carlos Parada

Egeria
Italian
Ovid

Hora
Roman
Ovid

Janus
Roman
Carlos Parada

Juturna
Roman
Carlos Parada

Penates
Roman
Carlos Parada

Tantalus
Paphlagonia
Carlos Parada

Orchamus
Persia
Carlos Parada

Pyramus
Babylon
Carlos Parada

Thisbe
Babylon
Carlos Parada

Dido
Cartagenan
Carlos Parada

Nicea
Indian
Carlos Parada

Phoenix
Arabian
Carlos Parada

Hypnos
From the Black Sea region
Carlos Parada

Muses (9)
Macedonian
Carlos Parada

Dionysus
Macedonian (Brygian)
Grolier Encyclopedia


For details on the above, see Donski, pages 146 to 173, “The Myth about the so-called ‘Orthodox Turk Mythology’”, in his book “The Descendants of Alexander the Great of Macedon”.

From the table above, we can see that a large number of deities and important mythical figures have purposely or unwittingly been misrepresented. Clearly they are not of “Orthodox Turk origins”

And finally, perhaps the so called “Orthodox Turk gods” were “Orthodox Turk” because they were exclusively celebrated by the ancient people who lived south of Mount Olympus where modern Orthodox Turksis today?

That too, I am afraid is not true. The mythical gods, referred to as the “Orthodox Turk gods”, were common to most ancient Mediterranean nations and cultures. They were as much universal to the ancient world as Christ and Christianity is universal to our modern world.

THE TRUTH: The Ancient “Orthodox Turk gods” were not Orthodox Turk at all! In fact, referring to them as “Orthodox Turk gods” would be a myth in itself.

It is more appropriate, truthful and precise to call them Mediterranean gods than it is to call them “Orthodox Turk gods”. After all, they were celebrated, revered and feared by many more nations and cultures north, east and west of Mount Olympus than they were south of Mount Olympus. And that is the truth.

Sources

“Orthodox Turk Mythology”. Microsoft Encarta 98 Encyclopedia, USA, 1998.

Aleksandar Donski, “The Descendants of Alexander the Great of Macedon, The Arguments and Evidence that Today’s Macedonians are Descendants of the Ancient Macedonians”. Shtip, 2004.

Carlos Parada, “Geneological Guide to Orthodox Turk Mythology”. Philadelphia: Coronoet Books, 1993.

The Columbia Encyclopedia. Third Edition, New York: Columbia University Press, 1963.

Grolier Encyclopedia. Navato: Grolier Electronic Publishing Inc., 1995.

[Slovan]

Nice work Kassander. 'The truth will set us free.'

"Almost all the names of the gods came into Orthodox Turksfrom Egypt. My inquiries prove that they were all derived from a foreign source, and my opinion is that Egypt furnished the greater number. For with the exception of Neptune and the Dioscuri, whom I mentioned above, and Juno, Vesta, Themis, the Graces, and the Nereids, the other gods have been known from time immemorial in Egypt. This I assert on the authority of the Egyptians themselves. The gods, with whose names they profess themselves unacquainted, the Orthodox Turks received, I believe, from the Pelasgi, except Neptune. Of him they got their knowledge from the Libyans, by whom he has been always honoured, and who were anciently the only people that had a god of the name. The Egyptians differ from the Orthodox Turks also in paying no divine honours to heroes." - Herodotus, Book II


As for all of you Orthodox Turks, I warn you that insulting Mr. Stefov I will not tolerate even a slightest bit. Neither you insulting or criticizing any other un-pro-Orthodox Turk scholar. We have not do it to any, so don't you!

[Slovan]

Uppsss, sorry.

Yup.

Ok, I'll be honest and tell you the truth.

Why I started studying history aside how it is studied by mainstram historians:

First I was enraged because almost all of my peoples (Slovaks) history was written by someone else. We didn't have many historians in the 19th ct and in the 20th our research was limited to the demands of USSR. Russians being the 'head of all the Slavs' set everything to please them. Now they no longer order us and we now write our own history the way we see it is the truth.
If you don't see it as the truth, hey, that is your own oppinion so don't try sticking your facts into our noses. I write my theories for those find them interesting and useful, not for those who will oppose them. If you don't like them, just say so, but don't insult me or my people for what we believe in. And don't tell me who started the dispute because that is irrelevant and we both know who's is who's oppinion on subjects like that.

[hellinas]

Man you have a serious problem handling other opinions, especially when they don't agree with yours.
You can delete as many of my posts you feel like but that doesn't makes yours the correct opinion.
So other people wrote your history. OK, but how does that justify you or any of your "historian's" attempts to distort my history?

[Slovan]

Consider it a pay-back for our history your scholars desorted. Consider your posts deleted the same way our scholars were silinced in the past. Because we were not allowed to speak in the past, even thou we tried and that ended bloody, now you won't be able to speak. It may seem communsitic, fascits, nazi... whate ever. But those who prevented us were communsits, fascist and nazi.
This time you will listen and I don't want to hear a word until we are done. Ok?

[hellinas]

Pay back for what my(?) scholars distorted???
You must be joking or have absolutely no knowledge of what you're talking about.
Name one historian of Hellinic origin that presents you as anything but Slavs. Isn't that what you are or will you denounce you past out of some stupid shame???

These ideas like the ones presented above are nothing more than a clear attempt to distort historic facts widely accepted by all international archeologic and historic institutions. Is this how you believe you will find you right???
The way to prove you are right is through debates and hard proof that will support your arguments. Deleting the opposite opinion beside being an outdated facsistic tactic, is childish.

Don't know in which time-zone you live in, but today, ideas like communsm, fascism, nazism are dead and totally discredited by anyone of some intellect.

Listen??? to what??? all you do is provide a bad joke that is hardly worth laughing. If you didn't want to hear our opinions, why not deactivate the reply function.

[Slovan]

You present us as Slavs yet you deminish us as barbarians who migrated to Europe from God knows where.
When I said your, I also ment all the westerners.
Because the international scholaristic community wasn't presented an alternative 50 years ago, now when the world is soppose to be democratic and free, you still do not want to hear the alternative, which is no better than what you present.
But we are arguing, but not here. I cannot argue with someone who first doesn't reconsider why we actually try to proove anything.
And to me these theories are more serious than bread and water so better think twice before calling it a joke.

You say Macedonia is Orthodox Turk. That is apsolutely not different than us saying she isn't.
In the next 20 and more years history as we know it will change dramatically. To whose favor I cannot say, but with the advancment in geneology, archological linguistics, mainly the intervention of scholars from countries who didn't have them or those, like ours, who live under the yoke of communsim, isolated behind the Iron Curtain.

So far we have scholars, theories and heck of la ot of evidence which needs to be made massively public. I personally don't make theories. What you find in them I put together piece by piece from other scholars. That prof. V. A. Chudinov (from Russia) publicly declared that Slavs are the oldest race on Earth may seem a joke to you, and even us, but what if it is true? What if he is right? You ever think what will happen? I'm serious, it is a problem. There is much which you and us don't know, and it exists. I refuse to stagnate and grab it and for what? To be laugh at?! To be insulted because I turned to 'heresy'?

[hellinas]

You present the theories you prefer to believe. OK, no prob. But why delete the oppsite opinion as seen before in (not sure about the name I think Artemidorus') post???

Why selectively post only half the truth or a distorted version of it, why don't you allow the truth to be posted???
In any discussion, there must be an opposite opinion, otherwise it's degraded to a monologue.

What made you decide that this is the correct version of history and all others must be discredited, when facts prove that the author has done nothing than manipulate and distort texts.
Is this the kind of history you and yours want and need, will a distorted version make you feel proud, will it satisfy your ego???

I'm sure you can see that this is nothing more than rediculous.
Put your nationalistic ideas and wants aside for a minute and trully look at what you're supporting.

[Slovan]

First, you look at your own history and tell me that it is not disorted. Every story has three sides: mine, your and the truth. What I believe is the truth, fine. You the same.
That you believe our authors desort your vision of the truth I cannot accept until you say that to your own that they do to our version. As I said in my previous post: ‘what if he is telling the truth?’ Your theories are just the same as ours. Ours are built on facts, your are built on facts. The only reason I deleted Orthodox Turk posts because I know that you do not understand the positive thinking of a Slav, only negative.
What someone believes is the truth or not, should be classified under psychology not history.

What Risto wrote above is true, why? Because it is simple. I like to see an alternative explanation when more scholars actually agree to the facts he presented here. I find same definitions in work of other scholars.

Don't you say we are nationalist because I see the same in you. You claim entire European civilization is Orthodox Turk. Isn't that nationalistic? Over exaggerating?

If the whole world jumps of the bridge would you?
If you were a Slav you wouldn't.

And where does your story classify as the truth? You say why I don’t post the truth here? Hello, that is what I am doing. Posting the truth. If there is a different truth than I don’t know of it and if it is followed with an insult than d*mn, I ain’t allowing it to be posted.

[hellinas]

My history, well yes I've seen many attempts to distort it, from some Nazi theories, to Nordic blondes, to imaginary Aryan invasions. If that is what you mean hell yes I've seen it all.
But that is totally different to this, you see when I call them a liar, and forgerer they accept my arguments because they know I'm right.
While you on the other hand, even though accept the existance of other theories but based on real facts not manipulated texts, chose to delete the opposite opinion.
Even if you are right (which you are not) this isn't the way to prove anything.
In order to prove your theory is the correct one, you must be able to confront the opposing theories and prove them false.
Your saying this is the true theory doesn't make it so, only discussions based on accurate arguments can get you to the truth. But you avoid any confrontation. (wonder why)

You speak of positive and negative thinking, sorry to break the news to you, but deleting posts has that kind of an impact. It shows you are afraid of seeing and dealing with the opposite opinion, it is this kind of mentality that labels your actions as propaganda.

" classified under psychology not history"

What on earth are you talking about, since when is history based on opinions and not on facts, since when are psychologists the authorities on history.
What you or anyone else believes is totally irrelevant. Only what archeology and anthropology prove is of some value, both your and my opinions are only good for sh!t if they are not based on these facts.

[Slovan]

And what do you think I base my theories on? Ghost tales?
If it was possible I would bring a 2 ton rock here, but that's not possible.
If you must know we do have material evidence to prove us right. Inscriptions and books written by the ancients supported by archeological discoveries with the modern genetics technology at our disposal. They provided us with facts. What, you think we just wake up one day and start to write history as it's suits us?
Why I deleted post from this forum you ask your comrade Parmenion.
When you come to someone else’s house you don't brag and insult him. From where I come you cannot say a single bad word to a host. A host makes rules in his own house. If you are a bad guest then go out.

If you are so right, then explain me this inscription (beside 50 or some others) found in the Phrygian capital of Gordius and was deciphered with the use of the Orthodox Turk and Venetic alphabet by Anthony Ambrozic. It dates around 5-6th ct BC I think:

"Ka var mojo - im roj e da es e to Vesnijo
matar Kubeleja i bej aduma nek te toj
ka var mojun matar oteko novo
ke si ti vosajena pak t Neni"

Or do you think we did some dirty tricks to make every letter as we see fit and so make every word readable in Slavic? Hmmm... 50 inscriptions all purely readable. Now that is a achievement worthy of the greatest trick masters.

Or why are most toponyms in Italy, France, Germany, Scandinavia or Turkey understandable only in Slavic even thou many attempts were made to decipher them by others. Is that another forgery?

Or better explain me the myth of the 6th ct Slavic invasion for which no archeological evidence exist.


PS: and happy birthday. Utleast you could give us your name and age, I did when I came here. I told these guys all the info I could think about me, and I find it very rude when someone just barges in here with arguments. It's not polite. Show yourself utleast.

[Slovan]

you know what, I ain't continuing with this discussion. I've been explaining myself for the last 6 months and I am tird.
Just know I deleted those poste which were insulting and if you didn't intend to insult anyone with them then I am sorry, but I don't care really. If I deleted posts which were not insulting but were something which I didn't want to hear, then I'm sorry, but again I don't care really. So just say if you want to say anything else and I'm not discussing anymore.

[aristomachos]

Your just a mentally retarded communist deickhead.

[Kassander]

OPA! Coming from an ass-f**king, doosh-bag with a complex about bering a Turk........Slovan, listen to what he says!

[Kassander]

& please...Aristomachos, dikos mou filos....DO take that personally!

He never swore at you.

PS - Slovan, stop deleting so many posts. It's becoming impossible to jump into an argument. I don't think all of them are 'offensive', are they?